译文简介
直到几周前，我还在印第安纳州的加里地区工作。我宁愿在地铁上遇到吐痰的老太太和被人挤来挤去。
正文翻译
Feel like I have never encountered people who were as inconsiderate of others as I have encountered in this city我觉得在这座城市里，我从未遇到过体谅他人的人
Between the people yelling. Blocking the escalator. Honking the horn to try and force you out of the way at a red light. Sending messages outside of work hours. Just generally behaving like a-holes, I don’t understand why people say things like this is a collective society. There is something to be said about following a queue and saying excuse me when you run into someone, and generally being considerate of others. I feel like Shanghai is the city where people are the least considerate of others that I have ever seen. There is no consideration for others here.
隔着人大喊大叫、挡住自动扶梯、闯红灯时按喇叭逼你让路、在工作时间之外发信息。我不明白为什么大家会说这是一个“集体社会”。因为这意味着遵守排队秩序、撞到别人时说声对不起、普遍为他人着想。我觉得上海是我见过的最不为他人着想的城市。这里的人完全不会为他人着想。
评论翻译
Someone’s having a China day
中国平常的一天
Perhaps stay away from Henan for now
也许你应该开始远离河南
Bro, using reason isn’t going to work here. The faster you accept that, the better off you’ll be. If you find yourself unable to, then this probably isn’t the place for you.
兄弟，讲道理在这里是行不通的。你越快接受这一点，你就会过得越好。如果你发现自己无法接受，那么这里可能不适合你。
I know that after living here during Covid, and I’ve been living here for 5 years now. I’m probably still pretty pissed about that to be honest? Maybe make it hard for me to look past how dysfunctional everything feels here all the damn time.
在 Covid 期间住在这里让我明白了这一点，而且到目前为止我已经在这里住了 5 年了。老实说，我可能还在对那段时间耿耿于怀。也许这让我很难忽视这里的一切曾经给人的感觉是多么的不正常。
Have you been out of Shanghai in those 5 years?
Shanghai is already one of the more “civilised” parts of the country, so I don’t know what you would think in other cities. (Having said that, Shanghai is full of people from elsewhere.)
这五年你离开过上海吗？
上海已经是全国比较“文明”的地区之一了，所以我不知道如果你在其他城市你会怎么想。（话虽如此，上海也有很多外地人）。
Lean into it. I am now one of the crazy bastards on a scooter and have even gotten fined twice (not including the warnings)
I have no idea where you’re from or where you’ve been, but having friends back in my developed country who can’t walk alone in certain areas for fear of assault, some jostling on the subway and (as I write this comment a bao’an just did this) loud spitting is so low on my list of grievances in life.
Go to r/vietnam or r/thailand and you hear the same grievances.
学着接受。我现在也是骑着电驴乱窜的疯子之一，甚至还被罚过两次款（不包括警告）。
我不知道你从哪里来，也不知道你去过哪里，但我在发达国家的朋友因为害怕被袭击而不敢独自在某些地方行走，所以，在地铁上被人推搡（在我写这篇评论时，一个保安刚刚这样做）、大声吐痰，在我“生活不满清单”中的排名很低。
去 r/vietnam 或 r/thailand 也能听到同样的不满。
Up until a few weeks ago, I worked in the Gary, Indiana area. I’d take the spitting grannies and getting nudged on the subway any day of the week.
Say what you want about the Chinese sometimes having a penchant of living in their own little world, at least the urban areas are safe and you won’t be stabbed/shot for being in the wrong place.
直到几周前，我还在印第安纳州的加里地区工作。我宁愿在地铁上遇到吐痰的老太太和被人挤来挤去。
你可以说中国人有时喜欢活在自己的小世界里，但至少城市地区是安全的，你不会因为走错地方而被捅刀子或枪杀。
I’d venture to say that it’s kind of silly to make sweeping statements about everywhere else, based on your experience in one city. That sounds like a C.. talking point
我敢说，根据你在一个城市的经历来对其他地方做出笼统的陈述是有点愚蠢的。这听起来像是中国喜欢的说辞
I’ve lived in or worked in Gary, Indiana; Mesa, Arizona; Louisville, Kentucky; and Seattle, Washington.
I’ve also delivered shit as an over-the-road truck driver everywhere from Philly, to Brooklyn, to LA. Urban centers in the US are generally fairly unsafe. Chinese cities, all their other faults and flaws included, are inherently safer.
This isn’t a ‘C.. talking point,’ but a known fact here in the States. I don’t know what argument you’re trying to start, because you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
我曾在印第安纳州加里、亚利桑那州梅萨、肯塔基州路易斯维尔和华盛顿州西雅图生活或工作过。
我还当过卡车司机，从费城到布鲁克林，再到洛杉矶，到处送过货。美国的城市中心一般都相当不安全。而中国的城市，把它们所有其他的缺点和瑕疵都包括在内，本质上都更安全。
这不是“中国喜欢的说辞”，而是美国众所周知的事实。我不知道你想挑起什么争论，因为你显然不知道自己在说什么。
How would it be possible to know if you are safe in China? What source of info on safety can you reliably trust?
如何知道自己在中国是否安全？有什么来源值得信赖的安全指标信息可以证明？
I have eyes to see. That’s how.
Never had a naked crackhead try to open my car door in Hangzhou, but certainly have had that happen in Gary.
The fact people are honestly trying to debate with me that fucking Shanghai is somehow on the same level of crime as Gary, Indiana (all while trying to call me out as some C.. or Global Times shill) pretty much says all I need to know about some of you people.
我有一双能看见的眼睛。就是这样。
在杭州，从来没有一个赤身裸体的瘾君子试图打开我的车门，但在加里肯定发生过这种事。
老实说，你们这些人竟然企图和我辩论，说什么他妈的上海和印第安纳州的加里在犯罪率上处于同一水平（同时还试图骂我是什么中国或环球时报的托儿），这几乎说明了我所要面对的是什么人。
I just don’t understand what is your point? You experienced that in another country so therefore everyone should just accept that people are rude and inconsiderate here? So you’ve seen some stuff? A crackhead asked you for money? So, yeah, I’ve seen that too, does that mean that I should be grateful and not be bothered by other things? Actually, I also recall some people that were having drug problems being pretty nice to me and asking me for money politely, so what is your point? Were you even here during lockdown?
我不明白你到底想说什么？你在另一个国家经历过这些事情，所以每个人都应该接受这里的人的粗鲁和不体贴？你经历过一些事情，比如一个瘾君子向你要钱？我也经历过啊，这是否意味着我应该心存感激，完全无视其他事情给我带来的困扰？事实上，我还记得有些吸毒人员对我很好，还会很礼貌地向我要钱呢，你到底想说什么？封城期间你住在这里吗？
I was trying to put your complaints about people standing in front of escalators in context of how bad it could be, but since you equate naked men strung out on drugs trying to force their way into cars the same as ‘asking for money,’ that’s obviously a lost cause.
I won’t be responding to you again. You’re either deliberately misinterpreting what I’m saying for e-points or you’re an idiot. I don’t really care to converse with either sort.
我说“一个浑身赤裸的瘾君子试图打开我的车门”
你说“一个瘾君子试图向你要钱？”
我试图把你对站在自动扶梯前的人的抱怨放在其他背景下，看看这其实是多微不足道，但既然你把一个吸毒的裸体男人试图强行进入我的汽车等同于“只是要点钱”，那么显然我的尝试失败了。
我不会再回复你了。你要么故意曲解我所说的意思，要么你就是个白痴。无论是哪一种，我都真的不想跟这样的人交谈。
No worries, you sound like you’re trying to force a point that is like equating apples to oranges. Isolated incidents of one clearly ill person don’t justify complete blanket statements about the general day to day experience of a place. Seeing as you can’t even comment on the fact of whether or not you were here in 2022, seems like you can’t even give a full understanding to the ugly aspects of this behavior either. I think it’s you, who sounds like the hopeless idiot.
不用担心，听起来你是在强词夺理，就像把苹果和橘子等同起来一样。一个明显有病的人的孤立事件并不能成为对一个地方的总体日常体验发表一概而论的理由。既然你连自己在 2022 年是否来过这里都无法回应，看来你也无法全面了解这种行为的丑陋之处。我觉得你才是那个听起来无可救药的白痴。
Shanghai is much better than Fuzhou in spitting and spitting is better than stabbing. Crime in the U.S. is much worse and he made a legit argument
在随地吐痰方面，上海比福州好得多，而随地吐痰又比被人捅刀子好得多。美国的犯罪情况要严重得多，所以他提出了一个合理的论点
I sent my 12 year old along on the subways for a couple of miles each Tuesday without worry in Shanghai. Everyone did it if their kid had to stay for violin practice. It was safe as I saw hundreds of other (and younger) unaccompanied kids on the subway too. I would NEVER do that in the US.
在上海，我每周二都会让我 12 岁的孩子独自坐几英里的地铁而不用挂虑。如果孩子们要留下来练习小提琴，每个人都不觉得有什么。这里很安全，因为我在地铁上也看到了数百名其他（更小的）无人陪伴的孩子。在美国，我绝对不会这么做。
Yeah, the subways are exceptionally safe, albeit crowded. You’re just going to get jostled in them; there’s an X amount of space and a Y amount of people. I hate being pressed in like a sardine, but it’s better than taking the Seattle Transit light rail from Capitol Hill to SeaTac and sitting across from a guy obviously out of his gourd on fentanyl or crack.
地铁虽然拥挤，但非常安全。你在地铁里最多只会被挤来挤去；有 X 多的空间，Y 多的人。我讨厌被挤得像沙丁鱼一样，但总比从国会山乘坐西雅图交通轻轨到机场，坐在一个明显嗑了芬太尼或快克的家伙对面要好。
Not just Shanghai but I’m in Toronto and these are the things here too, whether you like it or not, it’s a big city issue
（回主贴）不只是上海，我在多伦多，这里也有这些问题，不管你喜不喜欢，这都是一个大城市普遍存在的问题
You are absolutely right. Been here for over a decade and my feelings of frustration have never abated. Go elsewhere if you’re not tied down.
你绝对是正确的。我在这里已经十多年了，我的无力感从未减弱。如果不是非要留在这里，就去别处吧。
You do realize they approached modernity only 30 years ago. The west got several decades more time.
你应该意识到他们 30 年前才接近现代化。西方则多了几十年的时间。
This does not explain the lack of awareness of others. I have been to much poorer countries with far less resources, and they still don’t behave with this level of lack of consideration for other people. I don’t understand why you’re bringing the West into the conversation.
这并不能说明为什么他们缺乏对他人的体贴。我去过更穷的国家，那里的资源也少得多，但当地人仍然不会做出这种不顾他人死活的行为。我不明白你为什么要把西方扯进来。
“poorer countries with far less resources”
but they have far less people.
Everything you described is related to how to make yourself “seen” over a crowd.
“资源匮乏的穷国”
但他们的人口也少得多。
你所描述的一切都与如何让自己在人群中“被看见”有关。
India has entered the chat
印度已加入聊天室
Yeah, I don’t think so, but it seems like you’re gonna go out of your way to try and justify people being disrespectful of others and try to somehow twist it back to me. Also the population is declining here and they actively restrict the types of people they allow to live here in this Tier 1 city. Also, never encountered this in highly dense cities in other neighboring countries of Asia, that also “modernised” not so long ago. So I think it’s probably a problem here!
是吗，我不这么认为，但似乎你要不遗余力地为人们不尊重他人的行为辩护，并试图以某种方式将其归因到我身上。另外，这里的人口正在减少，他们积极限制允许居住在这个一线城市的人群类型。此外，在亚洲其他邻国的高密度城市中，也从未遇到过这种情况，这些国家也是不久前才实现了“现代化”。因此，我认为这可能就是这里的问题！
It’s the size of the population plus the frenetic pace of city life. People complain about the manners of people in New York City too, for example. (Not saying it’s the same level of problems as Shanghai.)
The declining population argument…. this is completely irrelevant. Seriously, do you feel any effects of population change? You absolutely do not.
这是人口规模加上城市生活的超快节奏造成的。举个例子，人们也会抱怨纽约人的礼仪。（并不是说它的问题和上海一样严重）。
至于人口减少的论点….这完全无关紧要。说真的，你已经感受到人口变化的影响了吗？你绝对感受不到。
Xuhui
Not so sure about that. The manners are far, far worse in the countryside. Shanghai has comparatively great behavior.
这可不一定。农村的礼仪要差得多。上海的表现已经很出色了。
The population density argument is old, tired and wrong.
Seoul has 4x the population density of Shanghai, Athens 5x, New York 3x.
The population density of England is higher than all but 6 of China’s provinces, and The Netherlands all but 5.
人口密度的说法不仅过时、老套，而且是错误的。
首尔的人口密度是上海的 4 倍，雅典是 5 倍，纽约是 3 倍。
英国的人口密度高于中国除 6 个省以外的所有省份，荷兰的人口密度高于中国除 5 个省以外的所有省份。
You’re comparing China to richer countries. My original quote specifically replying to OP’s comparison of China to “poorer countries with far less resources.” It’s not any single factor in isolation.
By the way, Athens, NYC are not that great either…
Plus, do you have an argument that is not old tired or wrong?
你在拿中国与更富裕的国家作比较。我的原话是专门针对楼主将中国与“资源少得多的穷国 ”相比较而说的。这里需要联系上下文。
顺便说一句，雅典、纽约也没那么好……
另外，你有什么不陈旧或错误的论点吗？
You seem bent on hating.
楼主似乎一心要发泄怨恨。
They restrict the people who can get a hukou. Many people don’t get one. If they only allowed “high class” people to live in the city, there wouldn’t be anyone to cook of deliver your waimai.
他们限制可以获得户口的人。很多人都没有户口。如果他们只允许“高阶层”的人住在城里，就不会有人给你做饭送外卖了。
Out of interest, which countries have you been to then, just to gauge if Shanghai is the ‘worst’?
出于兴趣，问一下你去过哪些国家？只是为了验证一下上海是不是“最差”。
Because your gauge is more accurate?
为什么？因为你的感受更准确？
Nah if you read it again it says ‘out of interest’
不，如果你再读一遍，我的评论写着‘出于兴趣’
But you’re implying that you know more
但你暗示你好像知道更多
To you
对于你来说
Yeah, so you’re full of yourself and I’m not gonna waste my breath on you
你太自以为是了，我不想在你身上浪费口舌
Sure, even though you have
好吧，就当你有过好了
Joker
小丑
Either you like Shanghai or you don’t. Based on your posts about Hanoi and Gay Bros it seems like you like things your way.
No one cares about your experience in Shanghai haha. Good luck
不管你喜不喜欢上海。从你关于河内和同性恋基友的历史帖子来看，你似乎有着自己独特的品味。
没人在乎你在上海的经历，哈哈。祝你好运
It’s just a different culture. You said you’re from Texas. Maybe in Texas being loud and standing around escalators in a mall is rude, while in China bringing a gun to a mall and shooting people is considered rude.
We need to learn to accept our differences.
只是文化不同而已。你说你来自德克萨斯州。也许在德克萨斯州，在商场里大声喧哗、站在扶梯旁是粗鲁的行为，而在中国，带枪进入商场并向人们开枪则被认为是粗鲁的行为。
我们需要学会接受差异。
Living in Texas does not mean I’m from Texas, or that I’m even American
住在德克萨斯州并不意味着我来自德克萨斯州，也不意味着我是美国人
Not excusing people’s behaviour but here some reasons (all lixed) behind what you described:
People have no time, because time = money
There are way too many people and few resources
Ultra competitive environment – people think if they don’t get their way or take advantage of a particular situation they are gonna lose out
我并不是在为人们的行为开脱，但这里有一些你所描述的行为背后的原因（都是相关的）：
1. 人们没有时间，因为时间=金钱
2. 人多资源少
3. 极度竞争的环境–人们认为，如果不按自己的意愿行事，或在某种情况下占不到便宜，就相当于吃亏了
Why on earth did you think this was gonna be a “collective” society? Who even says that? Does “collective” mean something positive to you?
你究竟为什么认为这会是一个“集体”社会？这是谁说的？你觉得“集体主义”是什么积极的东西吗？
Welcome to the modern-day wild wild west that is China lol. Just pretend that you’re in Mad Max Road Warrior or something and adapt accordingly.
欢迎来到现代的狂野西部，即中国。就当自己是在“疯狂是麦克斯”之类的电影里，并做出相应的调整吧。
There is just too many people in Shanghai and life is too fast paced for anyone to have time for niceties. The average peraon juat wants to get thinga done.
But if you genuinely need help people are super helpful and caring. Sounds like you don’t know how to manoeuvre in Shanghai yet.
上海人太多，生活节奏太快，没有人有时间去讲究礼节。普通人只想把自己的事情做好。
但是，如果你真的需要帮助，人们会给予你极大的帮助和关怀。听起来你还不知道如何在上海过得游刃有余。
Ok, so basically every day I’m riding my bike to work some idiot does something that is so dangerous that it’s baffling. I go running at the track and people just walk perpendicular to you while you are running and don’t look. People scream to talk to each other in the apartment upstairs…aren’t people bothered by this shit for themselves?
好吧，基本上每天我骑车上班的时候，都会有一些白痴做一些危险到令人费解的事情。我去田径场跑步，当你跑步的时候，人们就这样直直地走向你，让都不让一下。在楼上的公寓里，人们高分贝地互相交谈……难道这里的人就不会为自己做出的这些破事所烦扰吗？
It doesn’t seem odd if that’s what you’ve grown up with.
My in-laws scream at each other all day, but that’s how they roll. I came home from work one day and could hear them from inside the elevator. Sounded like they were murdering each other. Get inside and find that they’re actually having a joke while they make dinner.
如果是在这种环境下长大，似乎就不会注意到这些东西。
我的姻亲整天大吼大叫，但他们就是这样，已经习惯了。有一天我下班回家，在电梯里就能听到他们的声音。听起来好像在上演命案。到了里面，发现他们其实是在一边做晚饭一边开玩笑。
my bet is op hasn’t been to other cities in China
我敢打赌楼主没去过中国其他城市
Been to many, but none of them claim to be the Tier 1 International Cities like this place, even I feel people in Beijing, where I also lived, were more considerate of others
去过很多，但没有一个像这里一样自称是国际一线城市，甚至我觉得我也曾居住过的北京的人都更懂得为他人着想。
I agree with you. Somehow Beijingers and people in smaller cities seem to be more considerate and aware of the public good. It probably won’t surprise you to know that Shanghainese are not well regarded by other Chinese.
我同意你的看法。不知何故，北京人和小城市的人们似乎更体贴、更了解公共利益。如果你知道上海人不受其他中国人的尊重，你可能不会感到惊讶。
I think it’s city people, I’ve noticed similar thing in big cities everywhere.
Chinese people are way more comfortable with being in others personal space, homogeneous society or just culture.
Get noise cancelling headphones and live in your own head, I do it makes 100% the difference
我认为这是典型的城市人的问题，我在各地的大城市都注意到类似的情况。
中国人更喜欢待在别人的私人空间里，同质化的社会或文化都是如此。
买个降噪耳机，活在自己的世界里，我就是这么做的，效果很好。
“No texting outside of work hours” is not the universal value you think it is.
“工作时间外不发短信”并不是你想象的普世价值观。
Especially since COVID lockdowns. Many people I know overseas complain that it became normal then and that bosses still call or text and expect you to answer regardless of the time.
特别是自新冠疫情封锁以来。我在海外认识的许多人抱怨说，这在那时变得很正常，老板在工作时间外仍然会打电话或发短信给你，并希望你无论什么时间都马上回复。
Putuo
least considerate of others that I have ever seen
you have not seen much of the world.
“我所见过的最不体贴他人的人”
可能是因为你没见过什么世面。
Seen plenty, but guess your opinion is more valid?
我见过很多世面，但我猜你觉得自己的想法更权威？
Putuo
too young, too naive.
图样图森破
At least should be grateful that no one is pointing a gun at your dame head.
至少应该庆幸没有人拿枪指着你的头。